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April 05, 2004

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Listed below are links to weblogs that reference A neutral suggestion.:

» "Em" from The Uncivil Litigator
My previous, "em"-saturated post may have contributed to this post by Blind Insight... [Read More]

» "Em" continued from The Uncivil Litigator
The battle over "Em" and the entire issue of gender-neutral pronouns (GNPs) in the blogging world rages on. [Read More]

» Yours, mine, and zirs from deblog
In the comments section just now of my most recent post at book-blog reviews, I referred to the dire need for a gender-neutral third person singular possessive adjective in English.... [Read More]

Comments

UCL

I love shizee! But seriously, that wouldn't work either. "I spoke to Judge X today, and shizee told me that shizee was not pleased with the motion I had submitted to shizee earlier."

I wonder if it's my blog that prompted this post by you. Probably. My last post is filled with annoying em's, and I agree with you: they're grating on the eye and they read like crap. I don't like 'em. (He he, pun intended!)

As far as its origins: I wanted a gender-neutral way to write my posts, and I didn't want to use "he/she" over and over again (that's even more grating). So I googled the issue and found a few websites specifically referring to "em", among other terms. Since I remembered "em" was used often on Greedy Associates, I just went with that. I'm all ears to other suggestions!

monyca

I just started noticing this recently. Maybe because I'm not used to it, but I find it quite distracting too. But, hey, if it works, I guess...

scheherazade

I'm right there with you. Change the gender to protect the innocent, if you must, but don't make me listen to a ridiculous word. Just tell me you may or may not have switched genders and then proceed with the story using "he" or "she." I don't care which, but constantly reminding me with this artificial word that you're trying to hide something from me -- essentially, that you don't trust me with your stories -- is off-putting.

UCL

I'm afraid Scheherazade's suggestion won't work from the perspective of an anonymous blogger.

It's an anonblogger thing, you wouldn't understand.

mad

Thanks to UCL for the illuminating post re: the origins of "em." But I don't like any of the others better, because (as I said in the post) they are so unfamiliar to my ear as to jar. I'm still fond of shizee (I actually like your example, UCL -- it has a certain poetry to it). But as Schehezerade says, this whole neuterizing of the pronouns seems an effort to hide yourself (I think, as does she, more than your subjects) from us. Then again, as you point out, we "known" bloggers can't fully comprehend the subterfuges of the anonoblogger.

Matthew

Thon.

mad

Huh. And to think that I went to Vassar, even, and missed this one!

Katherine

I like "em" because it so nicely dehumanizes those whom I discuss (who aren't all that human anyway, so not much is lost). ;-)

mom

Regarding the "em" thing, the problem with UCL's offering is that shizee only uses the nominative "shizee" (he/she), but in the sentence shizee offered, some of the pronouns should have been in the objective case ("him/her"). Since I have no idea what the objective case form of shizee is, I will make it up myself, and suggest the following edits to UCL's comment: "I spoke to Judge X today, and shizee told me that shizee was not pleased with the motion I had submitted to shimer [say shihMUR] earlier." Does this help? Probably not!

Badger

There's a perfectly useful pronoun used by those of us older than 40 - the hypothetical and subjunctive "one" - in the case of the judge, refer to the person by tilte - "judge"

David Giacalone

Hi, Madeline, My Trackback elf has apparently taken the holiday weekend off. So I wanted to point over to my posting on this topic at http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/ethicalesq/#a1192 .

Kevin

I've been trying to get che going as a he/she replacement no luck, but it does sound like an english word, and flows naturally.

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